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Thread: Photobucket Puts Screws to Everybody

  1. #41
    If PB doesn't crawfish on this latest debacle, they will have single handedly managed to BREAK a big part of the internet. No way will most folks take the time to go back through posts from years ago to fix broken links. Locally stored photos are the only way to go to preserve content long term. That is what we are really doing here after all. Forums become there own practically permanent library for future generations. That in itself is a big responsibility if ya really think about it.

    No offense Richard, but 20megs is total BS. It kinda shows a lack of respect for the members that work really hard here to post good content. Show and tell is one thing, but the hours of work to create good text to go with those photos, make this website the leader when it comes to pouring hot metal! There will always be clowns that get ticked and pull their own photos thus destroying threads when panties get in a bunch. When content is created here, I believe it then should belong to the forum. The members have a responsibility not to trash the house provided for them and the forum has the job to provide the members the space to live and grow this home. If advertising becomes necessary or even a patreon page, let's do it. If the problem is the owner of the AA has checked out, let's get the keys to the front door while it's still possible.

    We already have many threads missing important photos and this is trashing the avenue as we speak! NOT GOOD!
    WWW.TheHomeFoundry.org
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Jammer's Avatar
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    I checked my account. I get 2 GB of storage for free, I have 865 photos saved and one video. I load all my photos on forum size because that's how I'm going to use them. And I have used 28% of my account. If I close my account and move all my pictures every link will be broken for the last 10 years, making my 3400 posts pretty much useless, or at least more useless than they already are.
    We lost all our links on the other foundry site when it crashed and I'm finding it next to impossible to put the pictures back. I was going to tackle it again when I get some better internet.

    The train is at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum and usually runs every day on a short run through Chattanooga. This one was just totally rebuilt and is like new, I think they have 2 other steam engines and a couple older diesel engines. The repair shop and turntable is where the Choo Choo forge is. That's where I joined and learned some blacksmithing and use all there tools and welders.


  3. #43
    Senior Member Tobho Mott's Avatar
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    I only used IIRC 7% of my free bucket, and all my img tags are useless now. I wonder why some people were not affected?

    Yet...

    Jeff
    Tobho had learned to work Valyrian steel at the forges of Qohor as a boy. Only a man who knew the spells could take old weapons and forge them anew.

    How I built my oil furnace | My Photo Album | My Videos

  4. #44
    Senior Member r4z0r7o3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlPuddle View Post
    the engineers who produced the stable version have left the company and the new version 5 is reportedly very buggy
    Oh boy, didn't know that. That certainly casts a giant shadow over their ability to provide good support.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlPuddle View Post
    I understand it's very complicated to set up something new and will take a long time. I'm just saying it would be better to look into something else now, before crisis hits. Rasper said there is no way he's going to make any changes. Good, things are working now; don't mess with it. Having a stable forum platform gives us the luxury of time to prepare and test anything new.
    That's a good point, and there's certainly some IT talent here that's willing to help out on the skills-side. Maybe it is possible to do. I'd have to give a shameless-plug for Red Hat's OpenShift platform and service, since it incorporates the community/collaborative development/admin'ing part. The upgrade from free -> managed hosting is up there though, around $35-45k / year, but that's for giant web sites and apps mainly. Though this site may just be small enough that the free-tier could be used. That would make the server upkeep/maintenance hands-free, allowing more collaborative focus on the site itself. In any case, it would be a free sandbox you could play with Drupal and the database under (so the price is right)

    Quote Originally Posted by kcoffield View Post
    When I resize color photos to 800x600 they are typically 120kb-200kb depending upon the content of the picture.
    With JPEG, you can also reduce the level of compression, though depending on the dimensions of the pic, going too-low starts showing weird artifacts. I'm using 25% compression-level for my thumbnails (because they're small) and 50% for the full-size. Doing both, reducing the pic dimensions AND lowering the quality (increasing the compression) will have the most dramatic impact on the file-size.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, things that are useful are simple."
    - Mikhail Kalashnikov

  5. #45
    Senior Member r4z0r7o3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagboy69 View Post
    No offense Richard, but 20megs is total BS. It kinda shows a lack of respect for the members that work really hard here to post good content.
    It's 20MB x Number of members (active and non) x the number of backups. i.e. that number grows very large VERY quickly. It's easy to scoff at until you're the one managing it. Ignoring the fact there may even be bugs in the software that need to be dealt with. Anyway, my point is, it's not as trivial as you think, and for how much $$$ we pay for the service, probably best we just be grateful for what we're given and keep our mouths shut.

    (double-no-offense intended)
    "Things that are complex are not useful, things that are useful are simple."
    - Mikhail Kalashnikov

  6. #46
    Look at the bottom of this very page. See version 4.2.2????? That was from 2013 No one around here is doing proper maintenance, security patches and upgrades to this forum! Hell, 4.2.2 isn't even supported anymore. Guys, we are on borrowed time, I think this is the wakeup call we need.

    If this board costs 200bucks a year to run, I'd be surprised. I've been down this road before, I'll do some digging, but this site doesn't get the kind of traffic that costs big bucks.

    http://www.worthofweb.com/website-va...loyavenue.com/

    I've run some rough numbers and I believe this site MIGHT hit 30gb in bandwidth per month.... This is a very rough estimate using DOUBLE of actual visits, DOUBLE that largest allowable image size and EVERY visitor hits us 20times! The real number I bet is a third or less. At Vbulletin, 75gb cloud storage is 39bucks a month. SO WHO is actually paying the bill around here? What do we have to do to initiate a donation program? I don't expect one person to foot the bill, but if this is whats going on at the moment, this tells me this isn't costing someone very much money. A little bit of transparency will go along way to allowing members to assist footing the bill.
    Last edited by jagboy69; 07-04-2017 at 10:58 PM.
    WWW.TheHomeFoundry.org
    Visit me: WWW.HandcraftedLanterns.com
    "Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war"
    -- Donald Trump --

  7. #47
    This PB thing has caused me to rethink my web forum participation on several levels, and the following comments aren’t just in respect toAA.

    First, I’m disappointed with myself for toddling along with PB as long as I did, because although I understood the exposure, each step deeper was such a small step compared to a permanent move. I didn’t take action. Theimpact is basically 3-5 years of posts affected to becoming somewhere between devalued and worthless. I wasn’t expecting the PB approach and thought it would be more modestly priced when it came. I feel for people that have large libraries being held ransom. At least I have all my content locally. There’s just no way I’m going to reward that business practice only to be exposed to the same thing…..period.

    However there are several forums that limit only picture size, not total memory, and I try to use those sites photo storage religiously.I would say AA is in the poorest position compared to the other forums I frequent and a number of those are vBulletin.

    I ask myself what I really want out of forum membership andit simply boils downs to learning, sharing knowledge and experiences with others. Then I think about the invested time. It’s usually 10-15 minutes here and there but sometimes more. Thing is, cumulatively it’s a big investment oftime. If that isn’t permanent, I have to ask myself if it’s worth it? If I can’tmake it more permanent I can’t see putting as much effort into it going forward. Then, looking at it beyond me and the entire forum membership, I think to myself what a potential waste if historical posts become irrelevant. If there isn’t more permanence to posts on a global level, and you can’t search and use historical posts, it moves the forum toward becoming more of a chat room and ifthreads don’t remain intact then it’s just more repetitive content.

    I do think the relevance of pictures is high at AA given the content of art and cast objects; without photos it just can’t be as interesting and useful.

    On a couple of motorsport forums, I’ve seen build threads for cars that span up to 15 years blown up by this. Pretty painful to follow someone for years on a build scope like that and then see the impact of PB……it’s a real shame and sorry but I don’t think the net present value of $400/yr (and that’s just this round) into perpetuity is a fair price for hosting pictures.

    I have to agree with the previous posts that if the version of Vbulletin remains, the exposure to catastrophic failure just increases and it’s probably just be a matter of time. If the current ownership doesn’t want to invest the time or resource, why keep it? Most of the other forums I’ve seen smoothly transition through ownership and moderation, usually 3-6 people involved andmost have some form of funding mechanism and I have contributed to those that doand would so here.

    IDK, I guess I shouldn’t take it so seriously. I own and run businesses and certainly appreciate the need to make money but I see PB’s movesas quite predatory and malicious and having seriously impacted and devalued web forum content on a global scale. I don’t do causes anymore but I do know PB will never see another dime from me and neither will any of the companies that advertise with them if I can help it…….I think that’s the best medicine for them. I don’t hold out much hope for it, but if that was the collective response of the WWW, it would be fitting IMO.

    Best,
    Kelly
    My furnace build ----- I toil and fettle then foam turns to metal!

  8. #48
    Senior Member r4z0r7o3's Avatar
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    I just got my Amazon S3 bill, I store about 30gig worth of backup to my backup. Grand monthly total: $0.55, highest I've ever seen is $0.74 (it varies based on how frequently the data is accessed/read).

    Amazon isn't going anywhere, and that storage service is used to back most of their cloud-based empire, where fixed, static, never changing URLs are an absolute necessity.

    SpiderOak is maybe a little easier option, at a slightly higher price (but without the access-based pricing). I know for a fact that they're "SpiderOakGroups" service, is used for corporate-level backups, due to their zero-knowledge/client-side encryption policies. It's basically NSA and Subpoena-proof. They're also fairly open-source when it comes to both encryption routines, and community-collaboration on tooling. They're not going anywhere, and if they were a public company, I'd buy their stock in an instant.

    I'd cast a serious-questioning gaze toward any dot-bomb-style, fly-by-night, trend-of-the-month site like PB, or Imgr, or whatever. Their business-models predict their failure in the longevity-department. You need something absolutely permanent, that's going to preserve the URLs indefinitely and not break the bank. A giant-corp-conglomerate-evil-empire's generic object-store back-end or a quality backup-service is where I put my money.

    Given the investment in the hobbies, and time spent participating in a sharing-community. It's easily worth spending a few hours of head-scratching to setup a more complicated but permanent solution. For Amazon S3, most of the really difficult setup (access-control/permissions) is mainly copy-paste from the HOWTO above. You don't really need to understand it deeply, just follow the guide, step-by-step, verify anonymous users can't overwrite/delete your pics, then run with it in confidence.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, things that are useful are simple."
    - Mikhail Kalashnikov

  9. #49
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    As far as I remember lio hosted the site and the transition to an independent forum became a little painful. Anon did a lot to keep things together and migrate the posts and data. I agree it would be terrible to lose what we have, some posts are already lost to redundant members. Not sure who here would want you take on further upgrade responsibility even if funds were available.

  10. #50
    Time will give us the answer. Kelly, brings up some valuable points... Time is the most valuable thing anyone possesses. Active and meaningful participation in a forum is often viewed as meh to lots of forum operators. I ran a forum for many years, agree or disagree with your members doesn't matter. Without them, you have no forum. I've seen hundreds of good active forums go down the drain through the years for a lot less than this photo BS. My suggestion has been made, fix the avenue! Get the keys from whoever has them, update immediately, initiate some kind of fund raiser as necessary and get photos stored IN HOUSE PRONTO! Threads here are useless without photos. Threads with busted links only aggravate members and drive folks away. No folks or weak participation and no forum. Photos here are practically MANDATORY! What do we always tell the new people?? Post photos, we love pictures, no photo and it didn't happen. Imagine youtube with no video!

    Mark my words, this PB goat rope will end up in court! People are raving pissed and they have a right to be. This is nothing more than good old fashion hostage and extortion! Don't delete you PB accounts just yet, you'll want to collect your nine bucks from the class action lawsuit that I smell some greedy ass lawyer cooking up!

    EDIT: Just looked up my usage here... I would say something, me or the forum did a fine job controlling image size.
    "You are currently using 19.96 MB to store 476 uploaded attachments" That represents a fair chunk of work. I didn't just share photos of my cat.

    Over at weldingweb.com forum, I cannot find a limit on file uploads or anyone discussing the PB disaster. Wonder why that is???????
    Now here is a website worth a laugh. Some of you are even members of it!
    http://sculpture.net/community/ This CLOWN of a website has the potential to be a good resource. Is it? NOPE! I am actually a member there that's locked out or something. Hell, you can't even REGISTER on the site as a new user. The users there have all but vanished. Oh, what's that?? Vbulletin on the bottom of the page you say? It's so friggen old, it doesn't even list a version number! SAD, if you start something like this and cant support it, find someone who can! Poor sculpture.net is on life support. This happens to most forums that usually lack leadership.
    Last edited by jagboy69; 07-06-2017 at 09:44 AM.
    WWW.TheHomeFoundry.org
    Visit me: WWW.HandcraftedLanterns.com
    "Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war"
    -- Donald Trump --

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