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Thread: Wheres the electricians??????

  1. #1

    Wheres the electricians??????

    Could use a hand gang. I installed years ago a sub box in the garage with (2) 220 circuits. One is a 30amp rig for the compressor and the other is a 50amp setup for large stuff like ovens and welders. Problem is, my new (old as the hills) kiln requires 220 WITH A STUPID NEUTRAL. I know goofy. 220 outlets are never wired with a neutral. My oven, welders and compressor are all happy to run without the neutral. I'm studying the wiring diagram for the kiln and it says neutral IS ESSENTIAL. (must need that 120vt for god knows what is my only guess) Question is, can I just string another wire from my neutral bus bar in the sub box and down to the 220 plug that needs it? Sounds easy enough right?

    Thanks,
    Jason
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Wolfcreek-Steve's Avatar
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    Gee, I've never wired anything 220v without the neutral. (Usually 4 conductor red, black, white and bare) Yes, you should be able to string a separate wire, but it should have the correct insulation/sheath to be a stand alone wire. This is probably against code, but rules are made to be broken. lol Are you in conduit, or romax inside a wall?
    What is that squeaking noise?

  3. #3
    Senior Member chubbyjp77's Avatar
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    That's all you'd need to do. Make sure to use the proper outlet if you use one, it'll require one with 4 holes rated at the specified amperage. The ground is a safety device to help prevent electrocution and would serve the purpose if you used it as a neutral. This would be a foul though as the ground is only meant to be a conductor in a fault situation and that's it. The neutral on the other hand is meant to carry that current. Odds are that the ground and neutral are bonded in your panel.

    Using a neutral wire saved the space or the cost of a control transformer. Run the neutral off of the bus and everything will be good. Most modern stoves now need a neutral connection also if it makes you feel better. The welder has a built in power supply for control purposes and the compressor doesn't need it as its just a pressure switch and motor.

  4. #4
    Thanks guys. I figured you guys would have the answer. I ripped out my #10 3 wire romex and installed 8/3 with a ground and changed the outlet. Now I've got a 4 holer and should be good to go.
    According to paragon, because this thing has old school rotary switches, it needs the neutral. Either way, I just screwed my Tig welder. Now I get to whack a brand new cord to install some homeless despot POS chinese plug on my HTP. :-/

    Scratch the lesson on what a neutral does off my bucket list. Uh yeah.... and guys 2000 years ago dug a hole in the earth and made cool bronze shit. I'm raising the flag on that one. This is one long ass endeavor. Melting metal may be one thing, but it's the everything else that takes serious time and investment. I should have my head examined.

    Here's the wiring diagram, maybe the neutral will make sense to someone. Beats me, I'm stumped. http://www.paragonweb.com/files/wiri...rams/A82WD.pdf
    Visit me: WWW.HandcraftedLanterns.com
    "Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war"
    -- Donald Trump --

  5. #5
    If you do run a separate wire or use the ground be absolutely sure the wires pass through any metal hole or conduit along with the other wires. All current carrying conductors need to be together. This is one code rule you don't want to disregard because a fire will result. Been there done that.

  6. #6
    Thanks puddle.. I choose to make it right. I sleep better that way. lol
    Visit me: WWW.HandcraftedLanterns.com
    "Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war"
    -- Donald Trump --

  7. #7
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    depends does it have any 110 powered controls, 4 wire 220 50 amp plugs are common, just add a second plug
    or make an adapter now are #8 large enough for the kiln,
    kiln needs wires sized for full load.

  8. #8
    LSM... I HOPE so. lol I'll amp clamp it once I shove new elements in it. #8 wire should handle my 34amps. I believe #8 is usually good for 40amps and and #6 for 50. Judging from the absolute GARBAGE wire paragon was using inside this thing back in the 1970's.... I'm good to go. I'm re wiring EVERYTHING inside this box with some high temp wire.. I don't trust 40year old wire. And I'm also dumping the kiln sitter nonsense. Screw that. It's never firing pots and ashtrays ever again.
    Visit me: WWW.HandcraftedLanterns.com
    "Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war"
    -- Donald Trump --

  9. #9
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    I'm so glad we have 240 (cough 230V) as standard here. Not centre tapped and across two phase but a straight live to ground. Hell, my house ring will pull 32A without trouble.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Zapins's Avatar
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    Ha good on you man. Rewire the damn thing!

    Any plans for a PID controller? If so be sure to post pics, I've been eying those controllers on ebay for years wondering how easy they are to install.

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